My 'Salvation' Testimony

                   and

      Church Opposition             

March 4, 2023

     I have never written much about my salvation testimony, even though I wrote a whole sub-board on many of my experiences ...... HERE.  Anyway when looking through our ARCHIVES, I found my answers to my interrogation questions, when attempting to enter into a Baptist church discussion board, ((This was back in 2018))  I was explaining how I got saved,  had been a missionary for fifty some years, and was non-denominational. Well, their church attitudes soon came out, condemning me and calling me a 'pretender and false prophet' on about their third response.

      So after reviewing, this short lived debate, I figured the dialogue, is pretty explanatory for me in further stating how I got saved, and how I later through Campus Crusade for Christ, found out I was 'saved'. As well as showing how the church system works in trying to 'Rule and Control' all of their followers and potential leaders. Its quite revealing. If interested, read FURTHER BELOW..

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      Hi all, Im David Jay Jordan, a so called newbie HERE at least to the FORUM. I call myself a Baptist because I was baptized in a local Baptist Church in Spokane Washington. at 12 years old. I'm 70 something now, and still going for the Lord as an independent Baptist, you might say... as our ministry is to all kinds of people.

     Married, five children, had only one wife, shes a winner and has taught me innumerable things because of her heritage in the 3rd world, and we have experienced soooo much because we were independent and non denominational. No support from any church or family  (they were basically atheists).

I was quite the athlete growing up and reached international level by 19, but choose to follow the Lord after University graduation with a B.Sc. Degree ...'(There they tried to stop me from graduating because I wouldn't adopt insane unscientific evolution).

Been a missionary in probably the hardest place on Earth.... the U.S. but was previously in England, Holland, then back to Canada .... then the US, New Zealand, Australia, Philippines and onward. I'm terrible at languages. I am not a speaker, and I hate writing, as I'm a science type and not a singer, talker, speaker, writer type. Nevertheless onward Christian Soldier.. doing what I can .. with what the Lord has given....

Want to make it to the end, for to live is Christ, to die is gain... (End of first posting)

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(Jim, the Forum Host, asks me about my salvation and baptism and church affliliations, I respond ....)

No problem Jim. I usually like two way conversations rather than one way ones.... one way ones, hows that.. I always like questions and answers both ways, its called a true debate and true discussions. And I did see that note of yours for newbies to introduce themselves.

And Yes I was baptized in a Baptist local church way back when I was 12 years old. Took the course on a Saturday and got baptized on a SUNDAY. For I reckon you will want to discern if I am truly saved or not. Well I have been a missionary for over fifty years now, so no problem....

Yea, and I am rather well versed on science as I am a graduate with a B.Sc, and do dislike or hate evolutionary doctrine that is unscientific.... and am not much into material wealth as a proof of spirituality...  as those are the few threads I have started.

If you have questions, and I have to answer them to continue, so be it.

IHS

David                

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     Apparently I have to prove I'm saved. So I better get started, as that question is suppose to incoming from what I have read.

    Me, I have always been outdoors as I loved walking in the hills and mountains of Washington and later in British Columbia. I knew the Lord was present, but never had the assurance of salvation from within, we had a bit of a troubled home life. I got baptized in a local Baptist church, after a two hour course on a Saturday, followed by a baptism on the SUNDAY. Went to Bible Camp.loved it... along the Spokane River near Cour De Lane (spelling)

     Moved back to Canada, went to high school... considered myself a sinner and knew the Lord but unsure of Salvation, and up and down righteousness trip as my so called righteousness seemed to go up and down, as salvation seemed to mean whether I kept the law or not... or I was told I must keep.

     At university, I meet up with Campus Crusade for Christ, and went through the Four Spiritual Laws, and received the Lord.... but the real clincher was that THEN I KNEW I was saved...as I believed and KNEW that salvation was not what I did but what Jesus had done for me. I was saved by GRACE rather than by works and with just the knowledge and truth of one verse, I knew I had salvation from HIM.

     'I will neither leave thee nor forsake thee', was the verse Hebrews. Meaning Jesus would never leave me, never ever... my ups and downs were gone and I knew the Lord would always be with me....which encouraged me to follow HIM all the way, from graduation onward. Many testimonies afterwards, but that's my salvation story and I'm sticking with it and thankful to the Lord for His Saving GRACE

     Onward Christian Soldiers... we are all the same, saved ONLY BY HIS MERCY and GRACE.

     There I might have finished question 1 already. We shall see. OK I apparently must say what church I go to... or what preacher or pastor I am under.  Being over 70, I and we are just normal Christians, independent and following the Lord. We get together weekly with others in our local neighborhood, in casual and formal meetings including bible studies. But there's no pressure in agreeing as we all are individuals and at different levels...as our mutual love for the Lord and others is our LINK and strength.

     Whats the label, home church, local church. early church whatever you like to call it.... informal church, sometimes formal church... etc etc...

Aha maybe question 2 has been answered...

OCS

David

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 (JIM, the Forum Moderator or Controller then writes)

According to your words you were baptized in a Baptist church when you were 12 years old and with no testimony of salvation. You said that is why you call yourself a Baptist. Then, according to your testimony you were saved, but not baptized. Your profile says you are non-denominational, this is far from being Baptist.

You claim to be Independent Baptist and a missionary of more than 50 years, but no church affiliation, no sending church, as you stated. If this is the case you then have no authority to plant churches. This flies in the face of both the name Baptist as well as scriptural example of mission work. By your own words you are a loner, not answering to any authority other than yourself.

According to your words you identify with no local church and never have, this is not Baptistic at all. These facts all taken together sully the name Baptist and go against everything that our Baptist forefathers stood and died for.

Scripture records that the way new churches are started is for a Scriptural Baptist Church to authorize a missionary to go out and start a new work. This is where the authority to become a valid New Testament Church comes from. Since you are a loner, with no valid sending church, you have no authority. Scripture declares that Christ died for His church, so your words and actions show no respect or reverence for Jesus, His church, or His death.

You would do us all a great service by not claiming to be a Baptist, which you certainly are not.

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      Forget the word twisting Jim. I was baptized in the Baptist local church in Edgecliff, Spokane washington when I was 12 years old. As mentioned, I took the 2 hour course of big words, and then got baptized the next day on Sunday morning... why did I get baptized, simply because I loved the Lord. I hope that is good enough for you...

     You dont need a church system to preach the gospel nor to start a church of believers. They are not suppose to be followers of me but of the Lord. That's scriptures... and that's a truth.

    And agreed.... I don't now associate with any Baptist church system, and have never claimed to be an independent Baptist or IFB or whatever you call them. I'm a Christian, nothing more. If that disqualifies me and others from being Baptist, so be it. I ass0ciate with Baptists surely but we don't go by labels and denominations, just as individuals who love the Lord. Is that acceptable or do all HERE have to be members of a local church to participate ? Do we all need to have Baptist church permission to witness about the Lords Love and words. I thought Christians just need to obey the Lords words individually and according to their own personal faith and decisions. That's what we have been doing for fifty years now. My wife only forty years as she is relatively new missionary... only forty years experience, and GASP she is brown skinned. But its the heart that counts as the Lord is not group affliliated from what I have seen and experienced. But if you say I must be a certified Baptist of some church, and be allowed by a church pastor HERE to say what I am saying and writing, I differ.

I by His Grace and Mercy follow HIM all the way to the End

     If you dont want me to testify the truth that I got baptized in a Baptist church, go for it, but I still will say it because its true. My sending church is Jesus, He sent me and us and we survived for decades as independent Christian Missionaries, if that isn;t allowed by you, so be it, but I don't think the Lord would be too pleased with your judgment.

     Such a friendly greeting I am getting,

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(Jim retorts)

I twisted nothing. I quoted or referenced your own words. You were baptized at 12 years old, but were not saved until you were an adult. That makes your baptism invalid and a farce.

No, you do not need to be a baptist or member of a local church to participate here. I was simply pointing to your disrespect of the church that Jesus died for, while still claiming to be following Him. To claim to be a missionary for over fifty years while not ever once coming under the authority of a local church is to despise the church that Jesus built.

You sir are a pretender and false prophet. The church is the pillar and ground of the truth and by your actions you despise it. 1Tim 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

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      No problem Jim, I have been called a lot worst... but come on Jim, Jesus died for all people and all of His church just not for Baptists. Do you know what you are saying just because you want to justify calling me a pretender and false prophet. Lighten up..

     I'm not a church person and the authority over me is the Lord Himself as Jesus stated. For there is ONE God and one mediator between God and man..its our personal Saviour, that we can hear personally from without the need for a clergy or priest or pastor. If we are mature Christians or even a newbie, we can hear from Him for we are each responsible to HIM for our actions... simple straight forward Christianity

     Jesus is our authority , what can I say. If you differ, so be it. Im responsible to Jesus for my actions and He only is the AUTHORITY over me.But thanks for such a friendly WELCOME, in the INTRODUCTION FORUM.

Onward Christian Soldiers

David

51 years at His Service, coming up... by His Grace and Mercy,

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at 9:11 PM, DaveW said:

May I suggest to you that, instead of getting all offended and then misrepresenting what Jim has said to you, that you commit yourself to an unbiased study of the book of Acts and discover the way that churches were started in the New Testament.

You may then find that what Jim has said is not really as you are trying to represent his words.

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(I responded saying...)

     They were full time disciples that forsook all Acts 2;44,45 and followed Jesus to the ends of the Earth til death (by the Grace of God)

     YUP, these individuals followed the Lord their Saviour and gave up all to follow HIM. This I did, and continue to do so... hopefully by the Grace of God onward til the end. (SEE Prophecy Postings)

     Here's my rather explicit testimony the Lord had to do to me before I was willing to give up all for HIM... This is why I was first called Jordan FISHERMAN, and it is not because I was a literal fisherman but because the Lord had to make me a spiritual fisher of men, because men and women were dying around me..

http://www.davidjayjordan.com/FollowMeTestimony.html

You asked for it I gave it to you... But you all seem not to read LINKS so allow me to repost my testimony of why I decided to serve the Lord full time til death do us part.

Follow Me' Fishing Testimony

Fishing for Dead Men Testimony

After being in a Christian group for a whole winter, (in 1972) when springtime rolled around I just
had to get out into the fresh air and away from the confines of close quarters. I wanted to return to
the mountains and lakes of earlier years where I had gotten to know the Lord through His creation,
Nature. I loved fishing and soon got a job at a fishing camp as a guide catering to the fishing needs of
well to do fisherman. But I found out after a shortened summer that my heart was no longer there as
it used to be.

So I headed down to the coast in British Columbia, trying to get my head and my life sorted out. What
did I want to do with my future? Should I serve the Lord even though my talents weren't in that
field? Should I be outdoors or indoors? And my head and mind was spinning with thoughts and past
experiences when I arrived on Long Beach on Vancouver Island. It was a hub of activity still in late
fall, as many campers and visitors were taking in the surf and the sunset. I took my initial walk down
the beach with the waves rolling in and campers starting to cook their evening meals etc.

But the whole serenity of this picturesque walk was going to be broken shortly. For as I looked out at
the swelling ocean coming in, I noticed what I thought was a log being sent inward by the waves. I
looked again when the next crest raised it upwards again and I thought I saw something coming out of
the trunk. This surely was more than a log. I stared further until the next wave confirmed what I was
thinking. It was a human body, for I could now see the arms and legs. I rushed out into the surf, fully
clothed and started pulling the body out of the water towards the beach. His eyes were wide open, his
belly was totally swollen and he wasn’t moving at all. I called for help, but before any one could
respond I hear this very audible voice say to me…�Follow me, and I will make you a fisher of men
 (Mathew 4:19)

I instantly knew what it meant, and heard for the first time the Lord's voice. Yet I was now in
shock and needed the assistance of others to bring the body onto the beach. But I knew in my heart
that he was dead and no amount of aid could bring him back to life. But others tried and tried to
revive him.

From a distance as I watched, the words kept going through my head, Follow me, and I will make
you a fisher of men.  But I knew I was no longer following Him and even considering not following
Him for the rest of my life.

But if I didn't follow my first love, and just went fishing for my own self and my own pleasures, I,
then knew, I would be fishing dead men out of the water rather than living ones. And I would be
wasting my life as more died around me and drowned. Is this what I wanted? Is this the kind of
fisherman I wanted to be  ... No !

So, that very night I got back into my pick-up camper and headed back to Vancouver and back to
Christian service. And by the Grace of God with bumps along the way, I and my family have been
doing it ever since, because I don't want to fish dead men, but be a 'fisherman for the LORD of
LORD

In His Service

Jordan Fisherman(David Jay Jordan)Edited August 15, 2018 by Davidjayjordan

(End of reposting from our ARCHIVE

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18 at 10:31 PM, John Young said:

Welcome to the forum, David Jay Jordan. I appreciate the fact that you have been serving Christ for over 50 years. You and I have something in common as I am pasturing in your old neighborhood. I do not want to take away form that and commend you for it. However, the problem most have with your testimonial is that you say that Jesus is your authority yet you seem to have never submitted to Believer's Baptism nor to His church, of any type. If you follow scripture and have Christ as your authority then you should also be obedient to a local church. Baptist is basically those churches who baptize and serve Christ in accord with the clear outline presented in the Gospels and Acts as contrasted to catholic and protestant churches which follow extra biblical traditions and teachings. Baptist is not a denomination and can include non-denominational, and other bible churches which follow the NT church model. House gatherings which do not have an ordained pastor, practice church discipline, nor have a organized membership, nor great commission effort are not churches.

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       So your members have to be obedient to you John ?

Anyway John, I was living in Dishman first and then moved to Edgecliff,... there was a really old Baptist church on the corner near the Elementary school ... lots of cliffs, and frog ponds, rocks and forests there at one time, by now it is surely filled with houses.

And Yea as mentioned I went to a Bible Camp, along the Spokane River towards Coeur Dalene (spelling) it may or may not still be there. Darn, I don't even know if it was Baptist but my Baptist church sent me there or allowed me to go there... back then they didn't preach or teach denominations just Jesus....

Thanks for the welcome, but my stay will be shortened by the above and below's. So will be on my way after they deem it necessary.

I  always obey the rules, and be respectful and courteous and helpful as our Lord stated.

GBY

David

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     John, its a new day, so let me reread your posting explaining the Baptist church..

     Yup professed service to Christ for fifty years. That's correct... but wasn't going to a Baptist Church regularly nor had a Baptist non missionary over me to tell me what to do. Yup, just obeyed the Lord. That's right

     But NO, we have always had Christian believers around of us, of all sorts of backgrounds and varying degrees of faith. We don't force or eliminate in our local fellowships, but just gather in Jesus Name, whether Baptist, Protestant or even gasp Catholic... and double Gasp even former Muslims who we lead to the Lord.

     Our guidelines were very clear... and in accordance to Acts as we BOTH had forsaken all and given all and were and are determined to follow the Lord to the ends of the Earth until death do us part..and even onward afterwards.

     Baptist is not a denomination ? Whoa I never heard that one. So John can anyone be a missionary or must they be Baptist. Are only Baptists saved or can anyone be saved by the Lord. Does the Lord speak to anyone or only to those Baptist leaders that have authority over others hear from the Lord or hear from the Baptist leaders over them who have authority over them.

     And ordained minister means a duly ordained Baptist minister, I assume from a duly ordained Baptist college I assume. So are there any ministers anywhere who are not Baptist that are duly ordained by the Lord ?

Just some questions for you to ponder/ meditate on or pray about.

ATBIJ

David

PS) Your rovering duly ordained minister and teacher who is ordained ONLY by Jesus. IMHO and from HDAEAAM

Quote

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As a full time successful missionary for Jesus, outside the bounds of a Baptist Church overseer or authority figure, I differ.

As anyone can be a missionary, you dont have to be ordanied by a church, whether Baptist or Protestant or Catholic. Just obey the Lord, He is not group oriented...Jesus respects individuals and their personal choices as He alone is our authority over us.

If you differ, so be it, not a problem, youre a church organization, so be it.

Mind you I never meet a Baptist missionary when out on the streets anywhere in the world. There were Baptists missionaries around and some of them I might have meet but we never paraded our church denomination in any formal or informal meetings we ever had.

     But dont worry about it, Jim. If people start going out and obeying the Lord directly, THEN in your frame of reference they will fail, and THEN from your point of view they can be more attached and dependent on you and the Baptist Church if they go again and be Baptist missionaries. Lets get some Baptist missionaries out there, the more the merrier, the more people get saved and love the Lord and the better the world becomes.

ATBIJ

David

 (End of quotes from INTRODUCE YOURSELF on a Baptist Discussion Board

before they banned me for not being Baptist)

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     Anyway, brethren and or non brethren, that's the sort of welcome I got on a Baptist Discussion Board, because I have been on every type of discussion board there's been on the internet, heathen, religious, scientific, current events, what have you.

     Yet because their Baptist church attitude is worth noting, as it is basically the attitude of almost every denominational church, ((And because I posted my personal salvation testimony, and why I served the Lord testimony, I thought it was worth reposting online HERE.))

     If you didn't know it the church system wants you to be dependent on them and you to be ruled over by them. They do not believe in going out on your own and according to your own FAITH, as an independent church missionary, They almost always ONLY have missionaries that are supported by the home front. The church missionaries being supported by 'prayer letters' that are P.R  brochures of their work so that the home church folks can pretend they are helping missionaries.

      In most cases its a con game where the missionaries have photo sessions of supposed bible studies and meetings that they send back in prayer letters to the home front, and therewith ask for continued donations, as they say they are proving their are witnessing the Lord to the so called heathen.

But what these excerpts do show is that I and we have NOT been going to a certified church system of any kind, and wrote honestly concerning this even to the Baptists, etc.. when entering into discussions with them. Mind you Jim got me excommunicated from this forum in about a week, but the good news is they still have the website still up and running.

And I did detail my salvation testimony with the Baptist church at 12, and the confirmation of salvation after my exchange with Campus Crusade for Christ while at University. Hebrews 13: 5a For He hath said, I will never leave thee nor forsake me.. for when I believed that, I was saved, and went on from this to become fishers of men for HIM.

LIJ

David Jay Jordan

PS) As a double confirmation, I did apply for the basketball team of Campus Crusade for Christ, but again was denied because I did not attend a certified church denomination, nor had a pastor certify me. To heck and to hell with certification

Onward Christian Soldiers, each and everyone of you !!!